Taishan (台山縣) or Hoy Sun (Hoi Sun) in the local dialect was part of Xinhui (新會縣) until 1499 when Xinhui’s borders were redrawn resulted in the formation of a new county from the area on its southwest. The new county, Xinning (新寧), is generally accepted to be Taishan’s forerunner. However, one writer said this Xinning was located west of present day Xinxing (新興). On the other hand, the writer didn’t see fit to enlighten us as when was present day Taishan (Xinning) established. We’ll continue to accept the general consensus until proven otherwise.
The name was changed to Taishan in 1914 to avoid confusions with counties having the same name in other provinces. However, this switch creates another problem. The name in pinyin is exactly the same as China’s most famous mountain in Shandong (山東泰山). As a test go to any search engine, do a search on Taishan and see what happens.
Taishan is generally accepted as the county with the most overseas-Chinese. Up to and until the early 1970′s it’s dialect, Taishanese, was the de facto Chinese language of North America’s Chinatowns. At the time for a person who didn’t speak Taishanese it was next to impossible to find work in a Chinese establishment.
This created an unique problem for the boomer generation. The language of their parents are Taishanese yet at Chinese school (99.9% of us attended Chinese school at one time or another) the teachers taught in Cantonese. So what’s the problem you ask? There’s no problem until the student started to do the assignments, if my experience is any indication, generally it’s the night before and always encountered at least one new and forgotten word. What to do? Ask your parents. What’s more logical?
The next day in class, the student may be asked to recite the previous week’s lesson in Cantonese or the teacher may randomly tested students on the new words from the previous lesson. The Taishanese speaking students would find their lesson with their parents on the previous evening resulted in incorrect answers. However, because of similarities between the two dialects the parents’ pronunciations were not always wrong according to the teacher. This lack of consistency just added to the confusion of whether to consult with one’s parents or not.
One would think this only happened to those students who asked their parents for help. Those who didn’t wouldn’t have this problem. But this is not really true because most parents liked to monitor their children’s progress and reviewed the school works at home. Their good intention would started to confused the non-confused and compounded for those who were.
Hi. I grew up in NY. I am curious, have you visited
Taishan? I was wondering if the dialect there is the
same as what used to be spoken in NY’s Chinatown or
is it now closer to standard Cantonese? I was wondering
if I visited Taishan, would I still here the same
language that fascinated me so much as a kid.
Thanks,
Robert
Hi Robert,
It is similar to the language spoke in New York Chinatown prior to the 1970s. Cantonese became the main dialect in North America’s Chinatown from the early to mid-1970′s onward. The trend today is towards Mandarin as people from other parts of China migrate overseas.
hi robert, i was born & live in boston. half my customers only speak taishan. my customers are quite surprised to learn that my taishan is so accurate. that must mean the taishan in the villages hasn’t changed much. otherwise you must be on guard not to use terms your parents used when they emigrated. for example, don’t call a door knob “the ghost of the door” they call it something else now!! my brother and sister all went to the village and talked just like them jeff
[...] great-grandfather once cried in front of his daughter Leila, when he read a newspaper from Toishan County and saw an obituary for his last surviving relative. He told her that’s when he knew: there [...]
We will be visiting Toisan tis December.Im very excited as I finally have the chance to see with my own eyes the place where my ancestral once lived.My grandfather was from Toisan.He didnt keep intouch with any of the relatives there.Will it be possible to track my village if I know the name?How about the ancestral house?I heard if I know my grandfather’s name it will be possible.Is that true?
Joyce, have you found the village yet?
Congratulation on you upcoming trip. Yes, it is possible to visit your ancestral village providing you have the name in Chinese characters. As for the ancestral house it all depends on its condition. If it is still standing then you should be able to visit it also. Again make sure you have your grandfather’s name in Chinese characters also. It is best to local the village before embarking on the trip.
Hi WOodson,
Thank you so much for your reply.I dont know anyone in Taisan.Who should I ask for help?By the way do you happen to know of anyone there who is able to help me?
Thanks for the insightful write-up. I am of partial Toisan heritage, and have only recently developed an interest in the language of my paternal grandparents. Now here’s something interesting that is hitherto unconfirmed– According to my father, the Sunning / Xinning people / dialect is a subgroup/subdialect of the Toisan people/dialect. I have compared Sunningwa to Hoisanwa, and there are differences. Can someone tell me, even if based on anecdotal oral evidence, whether the Sunning community is a separate subgroup of the Toisan community? All information on the Net believes it is one and the same, and that Sunning/Xinning is just an old name for Toisan. I fear the subdialect is at risk of extinction. Any feedback / discussion on this would be greatly appreciated!
Ee Lynn,
Kuala Lumpur,
Malaysia.
It is not a believe that Sunning/Xinning is just an old name for Toisan. It is a fact. The dialect does varied from one part of the county to another. This may due in part to poor road system in the old days confining people to small geographic area thus contributing to the localization of the dialect. In other words nobody can really say their dialect is the standard Hoisanva.
Thanks very much for your response, Woodson! Sure is fascinating tracking down my roots.